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The fact is mentioned, but a reliable source (e.g. 1) Up until April 2008 there was no official statement that placed Charles Durning at Malmedy. the men who were in the pasture and who managed to escape the slaughter are all identified and have been interrogated by the US Army as their testimonies where the first material on which the judges would rely during the process. and will get the relevant/readable pages uploaded ASAP. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC), More Durning documents have turned up. He was not a witness at the war crimes trial and he is not mentioned in any of the first person accounts of any of the survivors. Charles Durning (Highland Falls, Nueva York, 28 de febrero de 1923 - Manhattan, Nueva York, 24 de diciembre de 2012) [1] fue un actor estadounidense. Er erhielt mehrere militärische Auszeichnungen, darunter den Silver Star sowie dreimal das Purple Heart. (2000). 159th Regiment. Charles Durning, Actor: Dog Day Afternoon. 4. Charles Durning werd op 28 februari 1923 geboren in Highland Falls als zoon van James Durning en Louise M. Durning. I do belive that the edit should stand, however. There is no reference to the Reynolds quote, so it is not really relevant to the article. Ontdek de perfecte stockfoto's over Charles Durning en redactionele nieuwsbeelden van Getty Images Kies uit premium Charles Durning van de hoogste kwaliteit. 386th Anti Aircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (semi-mobile). Division. before D-Day), it and the Third Army were still in England, not yet having been in combat. There are links to articles on the medals with pictures of them there. He is not credited for being in Star Wars at IMDB. Being a fellow member of The Screen Actors Guild with Mr. Durning, I hope one day to meet with him again. - Are we supposed to believe - as some accounts hold - that after being levied out of the 386th AAA (AW) Bn, after being sent to Normandy as a replacement, after being wounded and after spending five months in a hospital recovering, that Mr. Durning returned back to the very same 386th AAA (AW) Bn he joined in '43? The American D-Day beach landings were under the command of US 1st Army, and the 1st Infantry was part of the First Army until - afaik - until the end of the war in Europe. 68.124.153.86 (talk) 00:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC) Gerard, Other than his wartime experiences, the article makes no mention of Charles Durning's career pre 1973. [5]. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. I'm afraid that's where your argument runs out of steam. Given the manual, handwritten nature of documentation at the time, and the huge growth of forces, it's not at all surprising to me that administrative paperwork was less than accurate. Unless someone has a contradictory source, or different experience with the Frances/Francis spelling/gender distinction, I believe the section should assume she is a sister. Following your training period in 1943, you were sent to England in February of the following year. Kudos to Oldbubblehead for excellent original source efforts! Again, am reluctant to cast aspersions, but not many men advertise their valor awards, but refuse to clearly state what units they served in. The inability of anyone, to include his family, to produce these General Orders, or even cite the GO#, must arouse curiosity, to put it mildly. It is apparently based on a June 1993 interview the source of which is not listed. At that time,in my pre-understanding of conversations I had with his spouse, Mr. Durning did not like to discuss his involvement in the landing at Omaha Beach that fateful day with The 1st. It's a shame he is not more forthcoming; such vagueness merely arouses suspicion. Of course all those who have writen on that massacre have emphasised one or other point of view according to their preference: som tried to whitewash the Germans others of course have pointed out how bestial they have been. So when was he a member of Third Army, during or after the war?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 13:23, 26 December 2012 (UTC), It seems to me we should be able to track down (and then link to) Durning's Silver Star citation, which would provide date, circumstances and probably unit of assignment at the time. This record will need to be linked on this talk page so that other editors can verify this before we can allow this kind of character assassination. Seit 1975 wurde Durning neunmal für einen Emmy Award nominiert; darunter 2005 für seine Gastrolle als Ernie Yost in der Folge Der Held von Iwo Jima (im Original: Call of Silence) der CBS-Fernsehserie NCIS und zuletzt 2008 für seine 24 Gastauftritte als John Gavin Sr. in der Fernsehserie Rescue Me (2004–2007). His three brothers James (Roger) (1915–2000), Clifford (1916–1994),and Gerald Durning (born 1926), and his sister Frances (born 1919) survived to adulthood, but five sisters lost their lives to scarlet fever and smallpox as children. His mother, Louise (née Leonard; 1894–1982), was a laundress at West Point, and his father, James Durning (1883 – c. 1939), was an Irish immigrant. The question of why a trained rifleman (if that is what he was on D-Day) would suddenly end up in a field artillery observation battalion (if that is what happened) on 17 December is still pertinent. They are not survivors although they escaped the massacre. Zweimal war er für den Tony Award nominiert, erstmals 1965 für seine Rolle eines Universitätssporttrainers in dem Bühnenstück That Championship Season und zum zweiten Mal 1983 für seine Rolle als „Big Daddy“ im Tennessee-Williams-Stück Die Katze auf dem heißen Blechdach. WWII veteran, dance instructor and diversely talented stage & screen actor were all inclusions on the resume of this perpetually busy US actor who didn't get in front of the cameras until around the time of his fortieth birthday. Durning stated he took part in the D-Day landings, and the article notes he was with 1st Infantry. De HH.Petrus, Paulus en Quirinuskathedraal is de voornaamste kerk van de Belgische stad Malmedy.Het was aanvankelijk de abdijkerk van de Abdij van Malmedy, die als tweelingabdij samen met de Abdij van Stavelot rond 650 door de heilige Remaclus gesticht werd, en die samen het abdijvorstendom Stavelot-Malmedy vormden. The Service Stars (or campaign stars or battle stars) came in bronze or silver. Discuss here please. Durning does not appear in either the muster reports or morning reports of any of the units involved. “Stars in Khaki” by Wise and Wilderson provides little information. Never has Mr. Durning's name been quoted in any single book I have read. [1](No mention made of service with an antiaircraft unit), In populating the Infobox, I made the assumption that Frances is Charles' sister because of the spelling of the name (instead of Francis), based on my experience (admittedly OR) and "Frances is a human name, the feminine version of Francis." I made the following changes: When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. Further thoughts on this would be helpful. Dezember 2012 im Alter von 89 Jahren. I have just modified one external link on Charles Durning. And yet I am still very far from being convinced. Set the record straight and, once you have, we can revise it here. I'd also hope that other identified incorrect entries be removed from the article, such as earning 3 Puprple Hearts (he earned just one); serving with the 1st Division (he did not) and receiving campaign credit for the Battle of the Bulge (Ardennes Campaign - which, again, he did not); Oldbubblehead's research has proven those elements invalid. It is possible that a riflemen might be reclassified as a driver due to the extent of his injuries and be given limited duties in a FAOB, so it is not inconceivable, but the point here is that there needs to be some reliable evidence. Charles Durning diende in de VS leger tijdens de Tweede Wereldoorlog. The French document being discussed is not. ... Hij overleefde als één van de weinigen de slachting bij Malmedy … My favorite scene of his was "Dance a Little Side Step" from "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" where he played the Governor. Before I make any changes to his page, I have asked for some clarification from the Wikipedia powers that be. This may have been a mistake or perhaps not, but it would explain why an actor, in an age sensitive business, would not want to publicize a World War II war record. - At least one account says he was assigned to the 159th Infantry Regiment. - Mr. During supposedly told a close friend that the reason he was transferred to the Rangers was because he hit an officer, and was therefore given the choice of either Leavenworth or the Rangers. Eine seiner bekanntesten Rollen spielte er 1982 als „Tootsies“ romantischer Verehrer. The ceremony took place in Los Angeles and the presenter was Philippe Larrieu, Consul General of France. With regards to the re-assignment of soldiers - while it is common knowledge that the replacement system funneled troops from unit to unit after being wounded, they were still moved to units with respect to their training. Zweimal war er in der Kategorie „Bester Nebendarsteller“ für einen Oscar nominiert: 1982 als singender Politiker in Colin Higgins’ Das schönste Freudenhaus in Texas und 1983 für seine Rolle als „Colonel Ehrhardt“ in dem Mel-Brooks-Remake von Sein oder Nichtsein. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 23:36, 28 December 2012 (UTC) (Edited 23:39, 28 December 2012 (UTC)), Oldbubblehead (talk) 23:42, 16 April 2013 (UTC), I have received a copy of Durning's military records from the National Archives. He describes in detail being captured by Germans and escaping, but NOT as part of the Malmedy events--not even at the same period of time. If such a trivial thing deserves mention (which IMO it doesn't), then you would need to provide a reference that someone else is the 2nd most decorated soldier of WWII. So. David T Tokyo (talk) 05:40, 15 October 2008 (UTC), This is a major hole in the article. Stetsonharry (talk) 20:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC), If there's no objection, I suggest inserting a reference to him as a Malmedy survivor based on bhcnp.org. In any case, recovered soldiers were returned to units of their original branch. The current article, which avoids all discussion of these questions of fact, appears dedicated to burnishing and protecting his image, which seems a POV violation. Can we really exclude that the speach could have writen by a lazzy (or gullible) employee who could simply have made a copy/paste of what he had found on a website without making any check? Alfred "Ed Moch" Cota. The problem here is that this regiment arrived in the ETO very late (mid-March 45), and was plugged into the then-reconstituting 106th Infantry Division to replace one of the two regiments destroyed during the Bulge. the relation of the facts, how things happened. Division. Stetsonharry (talk) 22:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC), There was some discussion a few months ago about whether or not Durning was a survivor of the Malmedy massacre. It is hard to see where Mr. Durning would have earned a Silver Star with this unit. Mr. Durning, my gratitude and utmost respect go out to you. Der Film etablierte den grauhaarigen, schwergewichtigen Schauspieler in Hollywood als markanten Charakterdarsteller, der vor allem in den 1970er und 1980er Jahren regelmäßig in profilierten Nebenrollen zu sehen war. Steve Karras - who wrote the web2carz article - joined the discussion and provided additional data from his research. I remember reading that when questioned about his dancing, he had said he was an old song and dance man and I loved watching him slide around the floor. I love Charles Durning. discussion above, today's AP story on Mr. Durning's death says he was "captured in the Battle of the Bulge and survived a massacre of prisoners." Hy was bekend vir sy rolle in die rolprente The Sting (1973), Dog Day Afternoon (1975), The Muppet Movie (1979), en O Brother, Where Art Thou? On D-Day, you took part in the invasion at Omaha Beach, landing early in the day with a battalion of Rangers, alongside the First Infantry Division. Not only has no text been provided from this document, but it sounds like the entire thing was cribbed from this very article. Biography: Charles Edward Durning was born on February 28, 1923 in Highland Falls, New York to Louise and James E. Durning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deemery (talk • contribs) 16:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC), In 1943 you joined the army, enlisting as an Army Ranger. Thinking about how veterans of that era typically talk about the Army with regard to administrative matters only confirms this feeling that such records may be largely inaccurate. I added this piece of information: War Hero on Walk of Fame by Solvej Schou (Associated Press). Boeken van Charles Durning koop je eenvoudig online bij bol.com Gratis retourneren 30 dagen bedenktijd Snel in huis See: Nightmares are indeed an indicator of PTSD, but not everyone who has experienced stress or has nightmares is suffering from a "disorder". were returned to those kinds of units, infantrymen were returned to infantry units. Charles Durning (Highland Falls, 28 febbraio 1923 – New York, 24 dicembre 2012) è stato un attore statunitense.. Noto caratterista nel cinema americano, è stato candidato due volte all'Oscar come migliore attore non protagonista e ha vinto un Tony Award nel 1990 per la sua interpretazione a Broadway ne La gatta sul tetto che scotta I've uploaded the following scans of relevant docs: (still researching correct license and category tagging). The Battle of the Bulge started on 16 Dec 44, and the Malmedy massacre happened on 17 Dec 44. But, there is no way Durning is the second most decorated hero of WWII, see Audie Murphy and Matt Urban. [1] Der schwergewichtige Mime zählte seit den 1970er Jahren zu den profiliertesten Nebendarstellern in Hollywood. [4] Given the scores of thousands of trained infantry replacements prepositioned in Britain in anticipation of D-Day casualties (over 88,000 replacements of all types had been 'stockpiled' in the UK by 7 Jun 44), it defies belief that the Rangers would accept a last minute replacement who was not even infantry qualified. He served in the U.S. Army during World War II and was awarded a Silver Star for valor and three Purple Hearts. I'm guessing the latter was in response to Durning wanting to clarify things in the time leading up to his award from the French on 22 April. http://nmisscommentor.com/random-firings/charles-durning-obit-in-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-126171. Voor zijn moed en de wonden die hij ontving tijdens de oorlog, Durning werd bekroond met de … Charles Durning hatte 1965 in Ernest Pintoffs Harvey Middleman, Fireman einen ersten kurzen Filmauftritt. . Kaspazes talk 13:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC), User:Monkeyzpop has made an edit to this article about some statement that Burt Reynolds supposedly made on a TV show, that he is disputing. Does anyone think that we should request the page to be locked? Charles Durning served his country with honor and with great personal sacrifice. Block 36 shows arrival in the ETO on 19 Feb 44 and departure 8 Jan 46. The worksheet shows (additionally) Foreign Service Pay of $128.43 for the period 1 Dec 45 to 24 or 26 Jan 46 – $70–72/month depending on how it was pro-rated. Unfortunatley, the secondary sources have most of his info wrong. Zuletzt bearbeitet am 23. - On the other hand, if he were assigned to the 398th Inf Regt upon discharge from the hospital - as most accounts reflect - that raises even more serious questions. Bubblehead, do Mr. Durning's record throw any light on this point? It isn't clear if he were a replacement en route to a line unit, or a member of the replacement detachment's cadre when he was wounded in Normandy on 15 Jun (the initial replacement detachments were displacing to operate from Normandy during this same week). I repeat one last time, if you "know" - as you insist you do - why don't you contact the French Embassy and get them to retract the statement? Durning war einer der wenigen, die das Malmedy-Massaker im Dezember 1944 überlebten. --rogerd (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC), I had the priviledge and honor to meet Charles Durning some years ago, when I was on The Los Angeles St. Patrick's Day Committee, and we made him "Grand Marshall" for the parade in Hollywood. In conclusion I still have strong doubts about this story and I think that one should check for more reliable sources before writing that Mr. Durning is a Malmedy massacre survivor. Unless there is a source that indicates Mr. Durning has a disorder, suggesting he has one simply because he admits to nightmares is false and misleading. He received an Academy Award nomination in 1982 for The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas and again in 1985 for To Be or Not to Be. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:12, 9 November 2009 (UTC), I realize it's no shame to have post traumatic stress disorder, but I think that any such assertions in an article must be sourced, as per BLP. See more ideas about charles durning, charles, movie stars. Reading the remarks by the French Consul General (no doubt prepared by a careless researcher using limited references to accomplish the job in a rapid period) only mentions. 398th Infantry Regiment; part of the 100th Infantry Division, 3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.160.21 (talk) 03:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC), Every time I watch Star Wars episode IV (1977), I am certain I see Charles Durning as a foot soldier, Trying to defend the ship as Princess Leia records her message to Obi Wan in R2D2. For example, tankers were returned to armored units, specialist troops (rangers, paratroops, etc.) - While many individual service records were indeed destroyed by fire, the General Orders which issued Silver Stars were stored at other locations - such as in the unit files - that have been archived at other facilities. Nach dem Krieg verdiente Charles Durning sein Geld zunächst als Metallarbeiter, Fahrstuhlführer, Taxifahrer und Kellner. There is a significant question as to who he served with upon returning to the Continent. But while I don't know Durning and have only met him once, he is close with several close friends of mine, and I asked them to ask him about the Malmedy thing. Of all the thousands of units in the ETO? The book contains a bibliography but no footnotes or citations within the text to explain sources. In 1990, Durning won a Tony Award for the Tennessee Williams' play Cat o… James Durning was een Ierse immigrant die het Amerikaans burgerschap verkreeg door in het leger te gaan. Shearonink (talk) 18:54, 10 June 2019 (UTC), North American military history task force, United States military history task force, http://www.historynet.com/magazines/world_war_2/3030591.html, European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal, http://westlaonline.com/wcnp_article.php?articleid=5, http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-today/25135-they-also-served-celebrities-uniform-ww2.html, http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2008/04/france_honors_charles_dur.php, http://www.monstersandcritics.com/people/news/article_1401379.php/France_says_Viva_Charles_Durning_actor_and_war_hero, http://www.legiondhonneur.fr/shared/fr/ordresdecorations/fhist.html, http://stephane.delogu.free.fr/hs12-07.pdf, http://m.web2carz.com/article/article.php?articleId=2097, http://news.yahoo.com/durning-king-character-actors-dies-nyc-075353360.html, http://www.homeofheroes.com/members/04_SS/2_WWII/indexes/army/Army-D.html, http://www.arrse.co.uk/military-history-militaria/87046-actor-charles-durning-talks-about-d-day.html, http://nmisscommentor.com/random-firings/charles-durning-obit-in-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-126171, http://www.web2carz.com/people/who-you-know/2097/charles-durnings-war-heroism-exaggeration-fabrication, https://web.archive.org/web/20071201183644/http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1%2C1002%2C271%7C91918%7C1%7C10%2C00.html, http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1%2C1002%2C271%7C91918%7C1%7C10%2C00.html, https://web.archive.org/web/20060625095909/http://www.army.mil/soldiers/apr1999/news/index.html, http://www.army.mil/Soldiers/apr1999/news/index.html, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Charles_Durning&oldid=943408897, Start-Class biography (actors and filmmakers) articles, Mid-importance biography (actors and filmmakers) articles, Actors and filmmakers work group articles, Start-Class biography (military) articles, Low-importance biography (military) articles, Unknown-importance New York (state) articles, C-Class North American military history articles, North American military history task force articles, C-Class United States military history articles, United States military history task force articles, Military biography articles needing attention to referencing and citation, North American military history articles needing attention to referencing and citation, United States military history articles needing attention to referencing and citation, World War II articles needing attention to referencing and citation, Military history articles needing attention to referencing and citation, Military history articles needing attention only to referencing and citation, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, This article has not yet received a rating on the project's, This article has been checked against the following, A news item involving Charles Durning was featured on Wikipedia's. I don't see this as accurate or fair. One possibility for the fact that Mr Durning's name is not found on the roster of those awarded a Silver Star Medal is that there are two versions of "Silver Star". Aedwardmoch (talk) 05:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)AedwardmochAedwardmoch (talk) 05:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC), There are different ways to calculate "most decorated" and it's exacerbated by the fact that some awards are delayed by decades. Black’s later book, “The Battalion: The Dramatic Story of the 2nd Ranger Battalion” goes into more detail about the 2nd Ranger Battalion. It had much to do with the nature of the wounds, and the length and location of hospitalization. I wonder whether it might be able to get some rock solid sources on this. IMDb is not considered to be a reliable source since it is mainly user-edited - just like Wikipedia. Mr. Steve Karras, among other researchers, has accessed primary sources such as Durning’s discharge papers, his medical records, unit personnel rosters and morning reports, Army General Orders, and other records, as well as secondary sources such as unit official histories, to assemble an accurate record of Durning’s military experiences. 8. Er starb am 24. Dezember 2012 zu New York City, war en US-amerikanesche Schauspiller. He also points out that During's records only mention Silver Star, not Silever Star Medal. Please take a moment to review my edit. And there's the weakness in Wiki; the burden of proof should be on those making assertions of fact; instead, Wiki gives credence to unsubstantiated, possibly self-serving claims made by individuals, that are only bolstered by second and third hand retellings of that same man's stories. I've received the docs from Oldbubblehead (tnx!) Frankly speaking I have doubts about this. Let's discuss the editing here please. 6991 Guard Company. Den Charles Durning, gebuer den 28.Februar 1923 zu Highland Falls, New York a gestuerwen de 24. Danach begann seine Theaterkarriere vorwiegend mit Shakespeare-Rollen. Als 21-jähriger United States Army Ranger war Durning, der Sohn eines Armee-Offiziers, als Soldat im Zweiten Weltkrieg bei der Invasion am D-Day am Strandabschnitt Omaha Beach beteiligt. The rest of the Wikipedia article on World War II service is, as others have noted here, quite inconsistent. Whether true or not, the statements of the French Consul would not be admissible in any U.S. civilian or military court since they do not satisfy either the “Best Evidence” rule or the “Hearsay” rule. But then again, Reynolds is hardly an authority on military history, so what he says about Charles Durning's war record is very trivial, even if the editor could find a reference. What I know now, was and is still a missed opportunity for us to discuss this event, because like Mr. Durning, my Grandfather, Brigadier General, Norman Cota was an assistant Commander of the 29th. Stetsonharry (talk) 21:09, 2 February 2009 (UTC), I think everybody's raised good points. On that basis everything ever quoted is potentially false - a ridiculous proposition. They were fighting at Bitche, France, 200+ kilometers from Malmedy at the time of the Massacre. --65.190.163.190 02:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC). We owe him a debt of gratitude as we do the many other World War II veterans who served alongside him. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018). Charles Durning Vind hoogwaardige nieuwsfoto's in een hoge resolutie op Getty Images It does say that he was a survivor of the Malmedy Massacre. chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.70.124 (talk) 11:29, 25 December 2012 (UTC), Charles Durning was presented with the French Legion of Honor on April 22, 2008 (last week). That at least would acknowledge the elephant in the room. Monkeyzpop (talk) 01:53, 16 October 2011 (UTC), we all have watched the cuban crime rags to ritches film with al pacino , i am personnely convinced that charles durning done a voice over for an emigration officer at the early stages of the film watch the start and the questions about the tattoo ,,,,if this is not charles durning voice then im an aardvaark. Nach dem Krieg verdiente Charles Durning sein Geld zunächst als … I realize that one will oppose the statement of the French consul. I must acknowledge that several websites clearly state that durning was at the Baugnez crossroad when the massacre occured. The stockily built Charles Durning was one of Hollywood's most dependable and sought after supporting actors. I could find no trace of this on the website of the French consulate. Er erhielt mehrere militärische Auszeichnungen, darunter den Silver Star sowie dreimal das Purple Heart. This is four days after the start of the Battle of the Bulge and three days after the Malmedy Massacre.Oldbubblehead (talk) 06:39, 7 May 2014 (UTC). Stetsonharry (talk) 21:43, 22 February 2009 (UTC). The suggestion that it should now be considered "definitive" is laughable, given that its origins are completely spurious.139.48.25.60 (talk) 18:33, 5 May 2009 (UTC), Some insight (OR) This information isn't currently usable in the article itself, since I'm not aware of a published source that can be cited. Well I should maybe have taken part earlier to this discussion. Hij werd opgesteld op de leeftijd van 20 jaar en ontslagen met de rang van Private First Class op 30 januari 1946. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC), i'm confused because it seems that three purple hearts are claimed, but only two instances of being wounded are cited.

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